December 23, 2004

Judaism: Original or Just Extra Crispy?


The New Shul? Posted by Hello

It is often claimed that we Jews had the truth before anyone else, or that at least, we inherited the truth from our forefathers who, as the Midrash says, “fulfilled the Torah before it was given.” (That claim alone is worth questioning.)

Did we? Are we absolutely sure about this? I am willing to cede that we have formed an interesting conglomeration of ideals into a cohesive religious doctrine, but that’s as far as it goes. When tracing the roots of each of the particular beliefs, however, one always ends up staring right into the eyeballs of the Early Canaanites, Zoroastrians, or Greeks. We might have the Christians to thank, too, because there seems to be so much that we do, have changed, or don’t do so as not to resemble them.

If one tracks the chronology of changes in Jewish philosophy, practice, and society alongside the rise and fall of the surrounding empires, one thing stands out very clear. Our conquerors left more than just graves and widows behind. It is extremely rare that a vanquished nation feels none of the cultural effects or influences of its conquerors. The effects have gone way beyond those that would occur due to an attitude Rabbinic Law that demands Dina d’Malchusa Dina (the law of the ruling power is to be followed.)

The most profound examples are the administrations of Ezra and Nechemiah. Both were Persian ministers sent by Cyrus (who the NaCh calls a ‘moshiach’) to reeducate the populace of Jerusalem. One of the first edicts of Ezra was that Jewish men should divorce their gentile wives. For a nation that expanded its ranks by intermarriage (following the lead of Melech Shlomo), that would have been quite a shock to the system. Yet, the the most drastic change was the way that Tumah and Tahara were implemented. Previous to the time of Ezra (d.350 BCE), the levels of sanctity of the home were not on the same level as that of the Bais HaMikdosh, but after this time, new rules were put in place that applied to husband and wife as well.

I thought that unlikely until I explored the extant Zoroastrian texts and compared them to the Laws of Nidah and Taharas HaMishpocho (Family Purity) that we have today, and found remarkable if not almost plagiarized similarities between them. The Zoroastrian fixation/obsession with sex, menstrual blood, and death became, as result of Persian influence, part of our heritage. Among the other ideals NOT mentioned by Moshe, but later adopted from the Zoroastrians are messianism (moshiach), techiyas hamaysim (Resurrection of the Dead), and bans on intermarriage.

Example: Nidus & Taharas Hamishpocho

It is well known that in Canaanite culture, the woman was sequestered during her period, and it was socially unacceptable to have sexual contact during the menstrual cycle. The Canaanites were not alone in that belief, since many cultures considered it a time of ritual impurity and death. Bleeding out in those times was generally fatal, and little was really understood about female anatomy, ovulation, and menstruation. Each culture developed its own way of handling those things it could not understand.

Now I can say with relative certainty that the early Israelites were influenced by Canaanite culture because the sons of Jacob married Canaanite women(Torah SAYS so), were born, lived, and worked among Canaanites, no doubt were influenced by their surroundings. Not an unreasonable assumption to make.

(Suggested reading: The Red Tent by Anita Diamand. I loved it.)

So it is not surprising that Moses would write in Lev. 18:19 "and unto a woman during the unseemliness of her period, you should not draw close to uncover her nakedness." (I really hate translating that way.) Notice that there is no mention of mikveh, washing, waiting, counting, checking, etc.

Lev. 20:18 “If a man lies with a woman during her period and uncovers her nakedness, opening her source, and she exposed the source of her blood; both of them will be cut off from the people.”

Both prohibitions are listed among the sexual taboos, but NOT among the laws of ritual purity. Being read in context lets one know clearly that this restriction is not one of purity in the sense of ritual cleanliness, but rather is one of a moral/social nature, similar to those other sexual restrictions it is listed among.

There is no specific detail as to what "washing" means. Many verses relating to ritual impurities say "verochatz es besaro" (He should wash his body), but give no detail as how to wash. The Torah does not say anywhere "vetovayl es besaro" (he should immerse his body), but simply bathe, which reasonably could mean just a simple bath or even shower. In addition, if her period was a matter of ritual impurity, then it would have a sacrifice of some sort associated with it, yet there is none.

There is an exception for a woman after childbirth, but this case is ONLY related to after childbirth and NOT normal sexual contact.

Lev. 12:2-8 “When a woman gets pregnant and bears a son, she will be unclean for seven days; just as during her period she will be unclean. (Skip to verse 4) “And for 33 days she will wait for blood purification; no holy thing can she touch, and to the temple she may not come until her days of purification are complete.”

Skip to verse 6 – 8 where it lists in detail the place, time, and number of sacrifices she must bring in order to be allowed into the Temple. No where does it mention mikveh or washing at all!! So we find that even in a case where the temple is involved, where ostensibly the standard should be much higher, that there is no washing involved in the woman’s purification, but merely a waiting period and a small sacrifice.

The changes imposed by Ezra and Nechemia accompanied the changes that went along with the Cyrus’ Temple. The Jews did not build an alternate Temple on Gerizim without reason, but because they SAW what was going on in Jerusalem, along with the new rules imposed upon them, along with a different language (Avestan.) Part of the new rules were ritual immersion and extra stringencies for all sorts of things, both holy and mundane, which came directly from Zoroastrian law, but NOT from the Torah.

http://www.avesta.org/pahlavi/shayest3.html

This link will take you to Shayest Na-Shayest ('Proper and Improper'), a chapter out of the Avesta, which is part of the body of intricate Zoroastrian laws related to ritual impurities of menstruation. There, one sees the close similarities between rabbinic doctrine and the Zoroastrian laws, though even the Zoroastrians go well beyond the Rabbis in some respects.

The Jews are conquered by the Assyrians, who in turn are absorbed into Babylon. Persia conquers Babylon and takes over its empire. Persia has evangelical Zoroastrian King named Cyrus. Jews that are exiled to Persia become influenced (converted) by the King. King sends personal ministers (Ezra and Nechemiah) back to their native homeland (Israel) to spread Zoroastrianism, thus promoting both the religion and securing the realm through unification of religious practice. No doubt there was a political end in mind also. The Persian Kings routinely co-opted the names and styles of local gods and goddesses to their own thinking in order to placate the indigenous peoples. Marduk, a Babylonian god, was brought into Zoroastrianism after the Persian conquest as well. It also is likely that Ezra and Nechemiah were either accompanied by Persian forces, or at least had the threat of their presence available to them to enforce the new changes.

(Marduk and Ishtar, both Babylonian gods, sound way too much like Mordechai and Esther. I’m doubly suspicious because the story of Purim doesn’t have any historical corroboration from alternative sources.)

The Greeks

The Greeks had no less an influence upon Jewish thought than did the Persians. The Kabala is adapted from Plato and other Neo-Platonists such as Philo Alexandria (born 25 BC) and Plotinus(204-270AD). Much of classical Jewish thought was shaped by Aristotle and Plato, and the Scholastics from all three religions wrote apologetics in tandem with one another during the rich philosophical periods in Euro-Middle Eastern history.

In the Talmud, we find a few of Zeno’s Paradoxes (born 490BC) in one form or another. This is not just a speculative venture on the part of a bored Talmudic Sage interested in a mental exercise. In one particular case (the one I can remember anyhow), Zeno’s idea was central to a halachic decision regarding the Laws of Sabbath Carrying, where if deliberately transgressed, would possibly draw the death penalty as a result. This is found in the first chapter of the Gemara Shabbos, and the name of the paradox is Kluta k’Huncha Dumya. The question is whether or not an object thrown over the airspace of a private domain , can be considered as if it is resting in that domain, thus becoming a desecration of the Sabbath. Zeno’s paradox of airspace, rest, and arrows is used to resolve this question, without, of course, any mention of Zeno of Elea.

The Kabala, which didn’t take its present form until the Ari Z’L in the 1500s, had its Jewish roots in the Mishnaic/Talmudic Era, but the foundations are much older. Plato’s (427-347BC) concepts of forms, ideas, justice, virtue, use of allegory, and Hermeticism made their way into Jewish Mysticism and Kabalistic Ethics. Many claim that it was the other way around, and that the Greeks stole the ideas from the Jews, but the chronology and the evidence show that it is otherwise. The influence of Stoics and Cynics was no less profound. Consider the close political and social ties between the Jewish communities of Israel and those of Alexandria, the center of knowledge and philosophy in the modern world, and the historical dots get connected very quickly.

These are just a couple of examples where Jews borrowed or were forced to accept non-Jewish ideals into Judaism. I don’t feel compelled to observe something as a mitzvah because a Greek Philosopher, or some Persian Tyrant decided it would be fun or politically expedient to have us concern ourselves with it. The problem is that Judaism has been doing so many non-Jewish things for so long a time that it is has become deeply ingrained in the cultural mindset, and reinforced by lack of knowledge as to the original sources. Oh well.

We are not the original, but like the Moslem, Hindu, or Christian (who copy much from us), just another version of “Extra Crispy.” I have no need for a religion at all, let alone one that fails to recognize or acknowledge its roots.

All Hail the Colonel! (OH)

19 Comments:

At 8:19 AM , Blogger yoinoson schreiber said...

Regarding your comment about the Purim story and historical evidence. I have thought about it before and I think that Purim is one major Biblical story that needs little historical collaboration. After all little actually happens. Haman wishes to kill the Jews and in the end no Jews are killed. It would only really be a story for those involved i.e Jews. I am not saying that everything in the megillah is 100% historically correct. All I'm saying is that the main part of the story would leave little of an historical trail.

------
PS: Don’t post too much in one go. There is only that amount of 'blog reading' time each day.

 
At 9:00 AM , Blogger Shlomo Leib Aronovitz said...

Yoinoson,

Thanks for your comments. I agree that Purim might need 'little' corroboration, but I'd like for it to have some or any. I'm not only speaking in terms of recorded Bablyonian or Persian history. I can think of many reasons why they wouldn't even bother to mention it.

The issue of Purim deepens a bit when you consider that NONE of the other prophets of the time mention it all? Jeremiah and Daniel were both alive and active during the Golus Bavel and say NOTHING about the near annhiliation of the Jews.

Re: long posts.

Sorry. It's how I write. I try to foresee the obvious objections and address them up front rather than answering thread after thread doing the same thing. It actually saves ME time. I have already done the research, typed a rought draft, and whatever else I need, and to avoid repitition, I want to have it all out at once.

But your point is a good one and I'll try to keep things as short as I can.

Kol Tuv

 
At 9:58 AM , Blogger M-n said...

Yoinoson, you're making a classic frummie mistake.

We don't often ascertain the historicity of sacred literature by the story itself. It's the little details that reveal when it's fiction.

The hopelessly tangled chronology of Persian history in Megillas Esther is the first clue that it's a farce. The references to a grand kingdom (in the wrong era), a jewish vizier, a battle, and large edicts sent to the known world are further evidence of it being wishful thinking.

Also, it's not just Marduk and Isthar that are Elamite gods. Haman and Vashti are names of Edomite gods, and the story represents a mishmash of Elamite stories and a general theme that the Elamite Gods (Marduk and Ishtar) were displacing the Edomite gods (Haman and Vashti). The whole ball of wax was repackaged with a Jewish bent, leading to the version we have today.

Any serious scholarly study of Esther leads to one conclusion: it's fiction.

 
At 10:55 AM , Blogger Shlomo Leib Aronovitz said...

Mis-Nagid,

TY. Good job on your blog BTW. I especially liked the 'treating a nosebleed like nidus' line. LOL

 
At 5:53 PM , Blogger Shlomo Leib Aronovitz said...

Ok. I don't know if I should be addressing the 1st anon or the 2nd, or BOTH.

Re: EZRA & Tumah...good kashe. I will look into it. If you don't use it you lose it, and as you've probably guessed, I haven't been sitting in a kollel all these years.

Re: Finding the original story..You're right about us not to finding it, because it may not exist. What we DO know is how culture and religion mature and change with time and the influence of other ideas. No religion has escaped that fact. When we apply the same rules to Judaism that we would to another faith, guess what happens? The same results.

We assume originality because we assume uniqueness.
The Torah didn't fall from shamayim and like the Gemara and Kabala, it's not unique or necessarily original in its content or foundation. If its roots can be traced, maybe even with some doubt, to a human source, and that human source defines the cause/effect sufficiently, then there is no reason to assume the supernatural.

I may not know the end of what I'm seeking, but I can follow the trail that will (maybe) lead me there.

 
At 6:07 PM , Blogger Shlomo Leib Aronovitz said...

Re:bible critics or archaeologists.

I'm not an archaeologist, but I do know a thing or two about science. I would readily agree that 50 years ago, archaeology and biblical criticism/scholastics was spotty. Today, however, every scientific tool known to man is used to either verify, or debunk Biblical Claims.Nothing escapes the microscope.

We are working from different parameters. That's obvious. I follow the chain of evidence, and if my findings lead me to faith, then so be it. It is not the end I concern myself with, because I may never get there, or I may already have passed it.

Our history can only reach back so far. In lands where written language and literacy were nil, or useless, or from the ravages of thievery and political intruge, much of the information we would have had is lost. We can, however make reasonable assumption based on observed historical patterns and human behavior.

Skepticism is healthy no matter which way you point it.

Kol Tuv

 
At 11:55 PM , Anonymous Anonymous said...

"and like the Gemara and Kabala, it's not unique or necessarily original in its content or foundation."

This is not original to you - the question is how much such material is there, and how compelling is the case you make based on it as opposed to, say, the Rambam's case.
One or two points in common with Zoroastrian law and many more not in common is not sufficient basis to claim it was all stolen when the rest of the history doesn't add up.

 
At 12:00 AM , Anonymous Anonymous said...

"Our history can only reach back so far. In lands where written language and literacy were nil, or useless, or from the ravages of thievery and political intruge, much of the information we would have had is lost. We can, however make reasonable assumption based on observed historical patterns and human behavior."
In misnaged's piece on purim what are the facts? the names of the gods? that some of the persian history in the megilla is garbled?
everything else is complete - and very wild - speculation.
there is no evidence that the myth he alludes to that the megilla was ostensibly built on exists. It would be more parsimonious to believe that the story the megilla tells was invented by humans for their own purposes without believing all the rest. The willingness to believe every theory spun by bible critics = to buy the entire ball of wax, so to speak, no matter how speculative - is what I'm criticizing. Considering misnagids self avowed philosophy and the disdain he has for the gullible religious, he is very gullible himself.

 
At 1:38 AM , Blogger Shlomo Leib Aronovitz said...

Re: the question is how much such material is there, and how compelling is the case you make based on it as opposed to.

As I pointed out, LOTS of it is there. If you haven’t studied the Greeks, including the Pre-Socratics, then you might not recognize it when you come across it. The issue, however, is not merely that they share some ideas, since that alone would not lead me to any suspicions as to origin. When you combine the chronological and historical connections that place Greek philosophy and Influential Jews such as Philo in the same context, plus the fact of the Greek’s domination of ancient Israel, what other conclusion can be drawn?

Re: One or two points in common with Zoroastrian law and many more not in common……

There were more than just one or two similarities, but more importantly, we find that Taharas Mishpocho (eugenics) was a huge part of the Zoroastrian religion. Once again, it would be possible that the Jews and the Persians would have had the same ideas rolling around in their heads, and at some point in distant parts, had the same notions. BUT they weren’t at different ends of the globe, and the Persians, who unlike the Jews didn’t have a problem writing things down, wrote the Avesta hundreds of years before the Jews left a record of anything! Then you have Ezra and Nechemiah being trained by and ORDERED back to Jerusalem by a Zoroastrian Evangelist monarch, who is known as one who spreads his religion as a means to consolidate his empire. Do you really believe that Koresh rebuilt the Bais HaMikdosh out of the goodness of his heart? Cyrus did the same sort of thing all over his empire to placate the people. You have means, motive, and method, and opportunity.

We are not only speaking of Tumah and Tahara either. As many have pointed out, how did Moshiach and Techiyas Hamaysim make it into the top 13 stuff of Judaism when Moshe Rabeinu NEVER mentioned them? Yehoshua never mentioned them. Shmuel never mentioned them, and Yermiyahu (who lived during the Persian captivity) never mentions them. It is not until 2nd Isaiah and Daniel that we find these ideas openly hinted to, and lo and behold, there are Persians involved, or in the case of later nevi’im,
who WERE from Persia! Then throw in the funny little detail that somehow, someway, and for some reason, once Ezra showed up in Jerusalem, that there was suddenly no more prophecy in Israel.

I am not making claims based on a few little facts. I am basing the claim on a much larger picture, connecting dots from all over the historical, cultural, and logical spectrum.

 
At 1:47 AM , Blogger Shlomo Leib Aronovitz said...

I am going to let Mis-Nagid defend himself, since he is more than capable. The guy does his homework. The bias issue doesn't create the problems we find, rather the problems we find create the bias.

I, too, was raised to believe that Torah Emmes U'Moshe Emmes, and before I knew better, I thought that all of these claims were nonsense or at best speculation. Then, in the course of my education, I began running across many other sources of information that conflicted with the Jewish report of history. I didn't deliberately seek out to debunk Yiddishkeit, but it became the inevitable result of honest inquiry.

 
At 4:52 PM , Anonymous Anonymous said...

Mr Aronovitz, you don't know anything about my beliefs, and stop presuming. You reek condescension - obviously, anyone who questions your conclusions was indocrinated in the system. Maybe there are alternate explanations for why someone might not agree with your conclusions? I've said what I think is the main trouble with your thesis: You dont account for the fact that most of the overlap you point to relates to dinim that were preezra. You've only responded to say that you don't know enough to know what is pre-ezra and what is postezra. IOW, you can't evaluate your own thesis.

Misnagid never responds to any debunking of his debunking unless it is extremely silly - I've written several questions about specific claims he makes, and he has never so much as responded to one of them, leaving me quite unsure that he can defend himself. He relies on popular sources to a heavy extent, and gets most of his energy out of mocking silly beis yaakov girls who say stupid things at parties. For example, I asked him a question about a specific piece of bible criticism he presented, that claims that a mem sofis became a regular mem attached to a different word, and asked when the sifrei torah he claims confirm the textual variant he says is the original, correct one, were written,, because for the entire analysis to hold up it would have to have confirmation from a period preceding the introduction of menatzpach. He responded with a link to a book that would tell me what "Bible criticism" is, because just as you do, he assumed that any critical question must come from an indoctrinated sheep. I've asked a series of similar questions and he's either dodged or just ignored them each time. He puts tremendous stock in very elaborate theories that don't have much backing behind them and that contain many holes, as with the piece he's written here on the megilla. If he could defend himself, he would.

 
At 4:54 PM , Anonymous Anonymous said...

"you don't know anything about my beliefs"

or my upbringing, for that matter.

 
At 4:55 PM , Anonymous Anonymous said...

But this is an example of a "skeptic" coming to a conclusion not based on evidence, but on convenience.

 
At 9:03 AM , Blogger Shlomo Leib Aronovitz said...

Re:convenience

What convenience is there when one has to give up his friends, family, and career? There is no convenience in leaving the life you have known and starting over. For myself in particular, because I spend the time investigating both the factual and philosophical implications of divrei chazal and how they arrived at their conclusions, and what the implemetation of their words would eventually lead to. This process began back long before I showed any signs of leaving Yiddishkeit.

If the Torah and the Divrei Chazal were true, I thought, then certainly they could satnd up to any scrutiny and remain true. That, however, is NOT the case. Do you have any idea how crushed I was to discover so much error in Torah? Do you think for one minute that this was fun? Do you believe that I wanted to find out that everything I was taught, everything I studied, and all the years I worked at it to seem wasted? Don't you think I sought answers?

The worst part is that I was let down by the Chazal. I can take almost any statement by the Chazal and show that it a)is ridiculous and unrealistic b)using the chazal's method I can show what they say is so to mean
the complete opposite, and c)that one statement of Chazal is always contradicted by another.

There is no convenience about that discovery.

 
At 2:53 AM , Anonymous Anonymous said...

I would like to see a critque from you on the following.

http://www.mesora.org/torahfromsinai.html

 
At 9:00 PM , Blogger Shlomo Leib Aronovitz said...

Ok. I took the liberty of reading that link during my lunch break, and it sounds to me as if this is a beefed-up version of several common Orthodox arguments.

Here are a few salient points:

1) The author’s proof of Matan Torah is from the Torah. That is pretty much like my saying that I was dumped here by aliens, and the proof that I was indeed dumped here is that I am here. Had I not been dumped here by aliens, I would not be here at all. The author downplays the event, and thus evades the issue of proof, by saying that it isn’t important to the ‘relationship’.
2) No archaeological evidence or historical reference outside of Torah, exists to substantiate the claim a cataclysmic event having ever occurred. It is unlikely that 2.5 million people, with herds of cattle, would NOT have left something behind. It is also unusual that none of the Bnai Yisroel chose to commemorate the event in pottery, painting, weaving, or some metalwork. There is absolutely NO trail of evidence leading to Mt. Sinai.
3) The author chooses to shift focus from the supernatural to the psychological and rational by claiming that Torah Law is in synch with natural law. The author fails to articulate what he thinks natural law is.
4) The author claims that Judaism demands evidence. Look at point #1 above. There is no evidence, and the author is just making statements, not providing any rational analysis or providing the proof he claims Judaism demands.
5) He claims that Torah accepts the same framework as a scientist would, and then enumerates three assertions that a ‘rational’ person must draw, without explaining WHY those assertions are imperative or necessary.
6) The author then goes on to explain his version of how history operates. He starts with two principles, ignorance (which he is an expert at), and fabrication (which he seems to be holding his own on.) He claims that if a common man were to tell us about complex weather patterns (they are not that complex if you understand the basics), we would NOT believe him because he is common. Only an expert would be believed. In other words, the author is suggesting that the only way we can believe something being conveyed to us is if the person telling it has the capacity to understand it. Historians, however, do not need to be experts at the events they report, they only have to record facts accurately as they can. The man who reported the bombing of Hiroshima did not have to be a physicist to get the story right.
7) The author also assumes that entire nations of people cannot tell such a big lie and get away with it. It’s the safety in numbers argument. The author reasserts this position several times without showing why it is. If one looks at the Soviet Union’s propaganda machine and its revisionist history programs, one sees that in fact, it IS possible to fool millions at a time, especially when there is no proof or disproof available for the event your claim rests upon.
8) The author quote mines from Newton and Einstein. I will not comment on this. It would take too long.
9) The author then employs the ‘you have to be a scholar to know what it’s talking about’ ruse. This is basically saying that one cannot claim the Torah is false without knowing ALL of it. The author then states that this process is infinite. If so, then how can anyone ever be an expert? It sounds like Zeno’s runner’s paradox all over again, saying “when you get to the end, then tell me what you think.” They avoid the end by constantly shifting the finish line.
10) The author then quotes the RamBan and says that parents would never bequeath a lie to their children. Then he says that because Torah is so big, that it would have to be deliberately falsified in order to transmit it as such. He is wrong. The lie only has to be told once at the beginning, and as long as the system lies in accordance with the rules, eventually the original will be obscured by the latter.
11) In the end notes the author inaccurately describes Ockham’s Razor and how it is to be applied. It is not a rule about having fewer explanations, but having the fewest necessary explanations; those that explain the phenomena and match the evidence.

There is more and I can go into greater detail, but this piece is just more of the same old same old.

 
At 9:26 AM , Blogger Chris Baines said...

Well, obviously, our father Adam got the truth before everyone and Iblees got the truth before him and ultimately Allah IS "The Truth" (Al-Haqq - one of His names).

 
At 1:47 AM , Anonymous Anonymous said...

Thank you.
What about the Kuzari argument which says that you cannot tell people that they themselves or their ancestors witnessed an event which they didn't because it wouldve been denied when introduced by virtue of the fact that they've never heard it from their parents. i would love to see a full posting on this from you in your usual briliant style.

 
At 5:36 PM , Anonymous Anonymous said...

"But this is an example of a "skeptic" coming to a conclusion not based on evidence, but on convenience."

You are extremely tendentious, Mr. Aronovitz. I was referring to the first point I made in this discussion, the double standard in evaluating evidence. Yes, once people are convinced of a new truth, they are often as gullible as the religious. It is *convenient* for you to assume that your thesis holds water without so much as doublechecking whether the laws you refer to preceded Ezra, and it is convenient to assume that anyone who points this out is an unenlightened, brainwashed believer. You and mashgiach both offer this as first lines of defense, and it sucks.

 

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