Kamtza & Bar Kamtza (Part 1)
Gittin 55b-56a
אקמצא ובר קמצא חרוב ירושלים דההוא גברא דרחמיה קמצא ובעל דבביה בר קמצא עבד סעודתא אמר ליה לשמעיה זיל אייתי לי קמצא אזל אייתי ליה בר קמצא אתא אשכחיה דהוה יתיב אמר ליה מכדי ההוא גברא בעל דבבא דההוא גברא הוא מאי בעית הכא קום פוק אמר ליה הואיל ואתאי שבקן ויהיבנא לך דמי מה דאכילנא ושתינא אמר ליה לא אמר ליה יהיבנא לך דמי פלגא דסעודתיך אמר ליה לא אמר ליה יהיבנא לך דמי כולה סעודתיך א"ל לא נקטיה בידיה ואוקמיה ואפקיה אמר הואיל והוו יתבי רבנן ולא מחו ביה ש"מ קא ניחא להו איזיל איכול בהו קורצא בי מלכא אזל אמר ליה לקיסר מרדו בך יהודאי א"ל מי יימר א"ל שדר להו קורבנא חזית אי מקרבין ליה אזל שדר בידיה עגלא תלתא בהדי דקאתי שדא ביה מומא בניב שפתים ואמרי לה בדוקין שבעין דוכתא דלדידן הוה מומא ולדידהו לאו מומא הוא סבור רבנן לקרוביה משום שלום מלכות אמר להו רבי זכריה בן אבקולס יאמרו בעלי מומין קריבין לגבי מזבח סבור למיקטליה דלא ליזיל ולימא אמר להו רבי זכריה יאמרו מטיל מום בקדשים יהרג אמר רבי יוחנן ענוותנותו של רבי זכריה בן אבקולס החריבה את ביתנו ושרפה את היכלנו והגליתנו מארצנו
Let us get right down to business. The story of Kamtza and bar Kamtza and its intended lesson are well known. For an English translation of Gittin 55b-56a, visit this link. This whole tale, as written, appears to be a rather simplistic assessment of characters, causes, and effects. Gittin 55b-56a looks more like a tabloid-type news-blurb than a clear explanation of the cause and effect relationship leading to the Churban Bayis Sheni. My purpose here is to look a bit deeper into Gittin 55b-56a, applying halacha, historical context, and human psychology to connect those causes to their effects and bring the players in this Judean fiasco into some semblance of reality. Like any news article or police report, Gittin 55b-56a gives us information in two ways. First, in what it does say, and more importantly, what it doesn’t mention at all and probably should if the story is to make any sense whatsoever.
Questions, Questions
2) The Gemara doesn’t tell us why the host hated Bar Kamtza in the first place. We always assume that it might be sinas chinom, but is hatred like this always unfounded? Just because our Gemara does not tell us why, does not mean there was not a good reason. (I would have to REALLY mad before I would dare create a commotion during a simcha, physically and forcefully ejecting a guest in front of everyone. That kind of sinah usually goes well beyond what we would call chinom.)
3) It is likely that Kamtza and bar Kamtza (if they were even real people) were not their real names. I found three other places in Shas where the word Kamtza is used (Yevamos 121b, Nedarim 19b and Avoda Zara 37a.) Kamtza means an ‘unclean bug’; according to some it is an ant, and to others an unkosher type of locust. In either case, the authors of this sugya obviously did not hold either Kamtza in high esteem.
4) By referring to both men the with the same moniker implies that Kamtza and Bar Kamtza were very much alike (or at least had something in common), so it makes me even more curious as to why it is that one would be loathed and the other honored by our host. It obviously had little to do with their individual characters, since Gittin 55b describes both men as ‘unclean bugs’. (This reinforces question #2.)
5) Bar Kamtza was quite anxious to gain the good graces of the host. What purpose would that serve? What did Bar Kamtza stand to gain by kindling the host’s friendship?
6) Why did the Rabbis at the banquet say or do nothing? Why would Bar Kamtza have even expected them to come to his defense? Were they afraid to offend the host, or might they, have had some earnest dislike for Bar Kamtza as well?
7) Why did Bar Kamtza single out the Rabbis for blame and revenge when presumably there were plenty of non-Rabbis present who also failed to speak up in his defense? Did Bar Kamtza pick on the Rabbis because of a preexisting prejudice, or because he honestly felt they were the ones to sway the opinion of the host in his favor?
8) How did Bar Kamtza, a Jew whose real name we don’t even know, manage to gain an audience with a Caesar? Was he influential, very wealthy, or politically connected? The Gemara doesn’t say. (There are dozens of stories about Jews meeting famous kings and generals and frankly, I am suspicious of each and every one of those.)
9) Can we explain the vengeful behavior of Bar Kamtza only in terms of the banquet itself, or were there other circumstances? I find it hard to believe that a person, no matter how wronged, would risk the destruction of his entire nation out of a personal dishonor. It just seems a bit extreme to assume that a Bar Kamtza would go to all that trouble over being snubbed at a dinner.
10) Had Nero not ever offered a sacrifice at the
11) Why did Bar Kamtza make this particular blemish on the animal? According to the Gemara in Temura 7a and the RamBam, Bar Kamtza could have made a much more obvious blemish on the animal, and by Noahide standards (or Roman Law), the animal still would have been acceptable, and Nero would still have been upset. Why the subterfuge then?
12) Why was Rav Yochanan so anxious to kill Bar Kamtza? Certainly, Rav Yochanan could not know the future, so how would he know the consequences? Had Bar Kamtza violated something else which made him, in Rav Yochanan’s mind, liable an immediate death sentence?
13) Why would Rabi Zecharia be so worried about how the killing might be misinterpreted? Was there some conflict as to what constituted a blemish or unfit korban, which would lead someone to assume the issue of Bar Kamtza’s execution was korban related? (This reinforces question #11.)
14) What would be the point of killing Bar Kamtza AFTER the korban of Nero had already been rejected and the event set in motion? At that point, killing him would have changed nothing. (This may have been Rabi Zecharia’s worry about how the killing would be interpreted by those who do not know all the circumstances.) Besides, was Bar Kamtza the only person who could have informed Nero? If his plan had been so ‘top secret’, then how did we ever find out about it?
Context & Pretext
If you were a Judean living between 150 BCE and 70 AD, it is likely that you existed in very tumultuous times. Under the Roman Occupation of Judea, the Jews were heavily taxed and the influence of Greco-Roman culture was coming in conflict with the more traditional religious ideals. The political divisions of the country were pretty much along the same lines as the religious ones; as Tedukim and Perushim were each vying for the favor of both the Romans and the general populace. These same divisions existed within royal families, too, and the Romans were experts at playing both sides against the middle. This struggle for religious and political control was centered mainly in the Judean malchus, the Bais HaMikdosh, and the Kohain Gadol. Essentially, whoever controlled the Kehuna controlled the people.
The Judean malchus assumed the task of appointing (with
It is in the backdrop of this politico-socioeconomic and religious unrest that the story of Kamtza and Bar Kamtza must be told. Here is the complete version retold in some detail. (This is a long post, so get some coffee and a danish. Part 2 is on the way!)
6 Comments:
If you read to the end of the Sugya, Rav Yochanan TELLS us exactly why the Churban happened, and it has nothing to do with Sinas Chinom or Bar Kamtza.
I don't want to give away the ending. Part 2 puts it all together, and we explore why the actors in our story behaved as they did.
Kol Tuv
I'm waiting for part II, but since your resolution seems at first blush to be based on a literary analysis of the names Kamtza / bar Kamtza, I always understood the names as being related to the Hebrew "Kamtzan", translated here as a miser :
http://ohr.edu/yhiy/article.php/1101
Hayim,
Thanks. Good Comment.
I also thought at first that Kamtzan would be the comparison to make here, but no. "kamtza" is Aramishe,and though the two languages have similarities, I think it is mistaken to choose the Hebraishe over the Aramishe, where the Aramishe equivalent exists. The Story of Kamtza/Bar Kamtza is entirely in Aramaic, except for the last statement of Rav Yochanan.
(This is significant though I can't figure out why. This might be the only place that RAV Yochanan is mentioned in Bavli, but in Yerushalmi he is quite popular.)
Kol Tuv
I went to the link you provided and also noticed that the author uses the term 'bar' as an exclusive rather than an inclusive, to disassociate the Kamtzas from each other.
Bar nash, Bar Mitzvah, Bar Chov, etc., are all instances where the term 'bar' (like ben) included the object in the category. I can't think of a case where that isn't so.
> the author uses the term 'bar' as an exclusive rather than an inclusive.
True. I did not notice it - apparently he did not understand the "bar" as the Aramaic translation of the Hebrew "ben", but rather as semantically related to the idea of "outside", like in "beraita", the teaching outside the Mishna...
It is forced, I agree.
Here were raised intelligent and important questions, the EXCELLENT question - but they were asked about the literal meaning (פשט) of the legend - and it makes disaster!
We are MUST DECRYPT the literal meaning of the legends of the Talmud!
In the book "Bar Kamtza. 2007" there is answers for all these questions - and for many addition questions about the legends of the Talmud. BUT the answers are the decryptions!
The following is the decryption of the most important points of the Talmud:
Who is Bar Kamtza??? What is the message of this legend about the REASON of the destroying of the WORLD???
Here is the answer:
http://barkamtza2007.blogspot.com/2015/09/Kamtza.and.BarKamtza.html
https://www.facebook.com/Kamtza.and.BarKamtza
https://drive.google.com/folderview?id=0B8mGY6JYOQDOfmxuWUl1Zkt1X0ZTa09SSklMMlRDallGT25KVkpUQ3FqWnJDZ004MjRBQkU&usp=sharing
---------------------------------
The Book "Bar Kamtza. 2007":
https://drive.google.com/folderview?id=0B4H3BoHH70ZXby1hYTl0MFVla2M&usp=sharing
https://drive.google.com/folderview?id=0B8sibYRR93vKcVdEQnZ0SG5Pc1k&usp=sharing
https://yadi.sk/d/fP6Oon6bbupFV
https://mega.co.nz/#F!HhwmWLYT!RQxoe2a_lZGi_EBsJsvRLw ניתן להוריד את כל התוספות כקובץ אחד
https://cloud.mail.ru/public/f1517623c419/Bar%20Kamtza.%202007
https://cloud.mail.ru/public/7c4991124e67/Bar%20Kamtza.%202007
The first version הגרסה הראשונה
https://docs.google.com/open?id=0B5ZmNoICedZhdW5Kd0FqcGNuajQ
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